Thursday, April 19, 2012

Fastest uber killer? and related questions.

Hey guys.

I have a smiter pally for running ubers. Grief PB, Enigma, etc. He's pretty good, but I'm wondering if things can get better.

1. Duriel and Izual are pushovers. Tristram is nice unless I'm really unlucky with LT not proccing. Lilith is a major pain.. I teleport all over verrrrry slowllly, and then when I finally find her she's usually with a couple nasty packs. Even when LT procs, my HP bulb swings wildly as they deal massive damage with ranged attacks, poison, and her melee attack. Often I end up having to teleport back to a doorway and pick the monsters off a few at a time. So... any strategies for dealing with Lilith?

2. Are there any builds which can kill faster than a smiter? Even if they don't proc crushing blow quite as fast, more DPS could make up for it when whittling away at the last sliver of an uber's life bar. I'm especially attracted to the barb because of his fast teleport rate.

3. I don't use a merc. Is there any merc build which can survive tristram or lilith?|||(edit: nevermind i did some math and last wish doesn't kill bosses much faster than grief does. although it does have lifetap...)

lots of ubers smiters secondary in zeal because its better for cleaning up trash mobs like the ones around lilith.

And there's nothing faster than a smiter. the reason is that some of the ubers mob have very high block (especially baal) and smite ignores block. you'll go MUCH slower on anything that's not a smiter.

for lilith:

1) i assume your block is maxed since you're a pally

2) i assume you have a CTA and you're using battle orders from it...

3) try to get high DR%, contrary to what you'd think from looking at her she's mostly physical damage not poison.

4) try to get as many health points as possible....

barbs kill much slower than pallys at uber trist, i know because i had a frenzy barb. (the reason i used him is because he's cheap as hell, you can gear up a barb to do uber trist for ~pul per slot. but in any case it's much slower...). But anyway barb is slow as hell esp on uberbaal... i originally did a conc barb but with baal's stupidly high block rate i could'nt even consistantly hit him enough to keep poison on to prevent life regen... took me like 30 min to kill just baal on a conc barb, lol. I don't recommend it for speed. frenzy is fast enough but not as fast as a smiter.

as for merc, don't bother. there's probably some nerdy way of keeping him alive but you're going for speed and he's not worth the trouble.|||A smiter is the fastest.

The build that has worked best for me is a 75% fcr hdin (hoto/spirit) with a grief on switch.

I only had 25% crushing blow from goblin toe, but it was plenty and imo the best choise as I get nice teleport speed in return (you gotta hate failed teleports!).

I used hoz over exile due to the nice res. Versus meph I just activated salvation. Prebuffing fade is not worth it timewise. Just keep it simple and fast.

Versus lilith i always downed a couple of antidot potions before entering the matron's den. Was a simple fight. If she's swarmed just lure her out and hammer her gang.

I have never tried last wish myself, but my mate tried it. In 2 player games he couldn't kill duriel due to too fast life regeneration. That kinda makes me never wanna try last wish. I'll stick with a grief any day. That fat grief damage is what kills in the end.|||I thought someone was going to say summon necro|||IMO a fana-zealot is the optimum character. You need just one point in smite because it's just about hitting all the time (smite is a holy shield and charge prereq, so any paladin has it). The damage is dealt by crushing blows while Grief's base damage plus off-weapon bonuses from the aura are enough for the final 3 blows to kill him, for leech through lifetap and for keeping up lifetap with Dracul's after it has been initially cast through a wand. Maxed zeal+synergies helps a lot versus the summoned monsters while smite is rather ineffective versus crowds.

Regarding Lilith, I think she's more dangerous than any of the other �bers because she's encountered in rather close quarters. Don't fight her while being amped, one kind of the succubi can cast that curse. Lure away either the succubi or Lilith, fight them separately and get uncursed in town before attacking Lilith. Dracul's isn't safe enough to trigger lifetap, so I use a wand with lifetap before, just like in Tristram.

In Tristram, I enter the battle from the South. I fight Meph first because of his high summoning rate (his -125% conviction aura is countered by wearing Smoke and allres GCs), then Baal because he summons PIs. Diablo is last, as his summons are useful mana leech targets, so it don't run out of mana potions while being manadrained by Baal's ghosts (I'm stingy with rejuvs ). When I'm done with the �bers, I kill off all the non PIs near the torch and lure away the PIs, so I can enter the game with a mule to pick up the torch safely.

Mercs are useless, maybe except for a summon necro. Keeping him alive might still be problematic because you either have to keep him out of any battles (which will keep your character busy all the time because he will insist on attacking something) or make him fight lifetapped non-PIs. If an �ber decides to attack him, he will die very quckly.|||Quote:








I have never tried last wish myself, but my mate tried it. In 2 player games he couldn't kill duriel due to too fast life regeneration. That kinda makes me never wanna try last wish. I'll stick with a grief any day. That fat grief damage is what kills in the end.




this is a little ot, but hey...

i had a smiter with LW and made some tournaments:

8 uber killers in one game and all portals will be opened simultaneously:

i usually won 1 organ, most of the time i got 2

the killing of the ubers afterwards doesn�t count for speed and such, cuz all 8 were smiting on the ubers...but i also soloed the ubers with this lw-smiter in p6-games|||Kickers and fury wolfs do it fast aswell..|||Quote:








this is a little ot, but hey...

i had a smiter with LW and made some tournaments:

8 uber killers in one game and all portals will be opened simultaneously:

i usually won 1 organ, most of the time i got 2

the killing of the ubers afterwards doesn�t count for speed and such, cuz all 8 were smiting on the ubers...but i also soloed the ubers with this lw-smiter in p6-games




Okay, I guess you had some open wounds or poison damage or whatever that cancels life regeneration

My friend had none of that!

Anyways, whether or not last wish or grief is the better choise I still feel that a telesmiter or a modified hammerdin is the best choise by far. I've tried that charging arond to the organ holders with a regular smiter/zealer and that simply takes too long while being leaving you more vulnerable - let alone that it's not always possible to charge all the way to the organ holders without having to wack monsters that very inconveniently block the way.

I've tried a kicker also. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who want to farm torches on a regular basis. I had a well equipt kicker once, but OMG she sucked in every possible way. As I feel teleport is needed that rules out shapers as well.|||Quote:








Okay, I guess you had some open wounds or poison damage or whatever that cancels life regeneration

My friend had none of that!

Anyways, whether or not last wish or grief is the better choise I still feel that a telesmiter or a modified hammerdin is the best choise by far. I've tried that charging arond to the organ holders with a regular smiter/zealer and that simply takes too long while being leaving you more vulnerable - let alone that it's not always possible to charge all the way to the organ holders without having to wack monsters that very inconveniently block the way.

I've tried a kicker also. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who want to farm torches on a regular basis. I had a well equipt kicker once, but OMG she sucked in every possible way. As I feel teleport is needed that rules out shapers as well.




very true, without teleport u�ll loose lots of time. i did not intend to discuss which one is better each one his preference, just wanted to say, that LW is capable of killing the ubers even in p6+ games (btw i used gores for more cb and ow)|||Quote:








Okay, I guess you had some open wounds or poison damage or whatever that cancels life regeneration

My friend had none of that!




no offense but your friend is stupid :P is it that hard to get one poison charm in your inventory?

edit: nevermind, i just remembered that poison doesn't work with smite. but seriously though the open wounds from gore riders and draculs should be enough.

edit2: i'm going to do some math on last wish vs grief. we'll settle this once and for all! brb

edit3: ok doing it with arithmatic would be long and boring so i wrote a sql script for it.

--uber diablo has 642700 hp and 50% damage resist.

--assume 6k smite with grief and 1.5k with last wish...

--so after DR, that's 3k smite with grief and 750 with last wish

--assume 100% crushing blow with last wish and 50% with grief.

--eliminate randomness by modeling as 100% crushing blow but with halved crushing blow damage with grief....

--so that's 6.25% crushing blow damage with last wish, and 3.125% crushing blow damage with grief

--assume level 90 so 133.34 open wounds damage per second

--assume 6 fpa smite so 133.34 / 4.16 = 32 open wounds damage per attack.

--or 16 after DR...

DECLARE @HEALTH FLOAT

SET @Health = 642700

DECLARE @COUNT INT

SET @COUNT = 0

--lastwish

WHILE (@HEALTH > 0)

BEGIN

SET @COUNT = @COUNT + 1

SET @HEALTH = @HEALTH - @HEALTH * 0.0625 - 750 - 32

END

SELECT @COUNT AS LAST_WISH_COUNT

SET @COUNT = 0

SET @HEALTH = 642700

--grief

WHILE (@HEALTH > 0)

BEGIN

SET @COUNT = @COUNT + 1

SET @HEALTH = @HEALTH - @HEALTH * 0.03125 - 3000 - 32

END

SELECT @COUNT AS GRIEF_COUNT

results:

62 for last wish

64 for grief.



LOL that's close.

maybe grief would actually be better though because it's faster on trash mobs. although last wish has life tap... that said if you just need life tap, exile is probably a better investment.

edit 4: changed health from int to float but results were the same.

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