the thing is, it doesnt even sound like poison its almost a machinegun effect...
im just unsure, first time ive ever run nihlathak and this is a hinderance to say the least,, any help would be appreciated
|||ahh the good old tomb vipers.... in my opinion the most dangerous monster in the whole game, atleast for my merc and skeletons :Ponly thing I can say is that they are "working as intended" according to Blizzard
:S
PS. it's when you/merc/minions MOVE in the poison cloud that the damage gets so insane, if you stand still its way more harmless... AFAIK. DS.|||The vipers are buged, if you want to tank them PDR is the way to go as they do damge every frame iirc.|||Their "poison spear" spell leaves a cloud of poison which is pretty harmless. However whenever 2 or more clouds interfere with each other, damage is applied every time something is checked, i.e. every frame (1/25 second). This means once you walk into 2 or more poison cloud, you will get some (low) amount damage 25times per second. Common solution to this is "damage reduced by x", i think -20..25 total will be enough to completely forget about this issue.|||Quote:
Their "poison spear" spell leaves a cloud of poison which is pretty harmless. However whenever 2 or more clouds interfere with each other, damage is applied every time something is checked, i.e. every frame (1/25 second). This means once you walk into 2 or more poison cloud, you will get some (low) amount damage 25times per second. Common solution to this is "damage reduced by x", i think -20..25 total will be enough to completely forget about this issue.
While you hit spot on what the problem is, I think you understated the damage of those things. My 5k hp barb, while whirling through "2 or more poison clouds", died in 0.29 seconds last ladder. Should have done my homework before running keys
|||Quote:Their "poison spear" spell leaves a cloud of poison which is pretty harmless. However whenever 2 or more clouds interfere with each other,
It's not actually 2 clouds that interfear. There is an invisible cloud after the initial visible poison cloud. It only applies to you if you move throught it. You won't receive any damage if you can remain stationary for the whole duration of the cloud.
Integer psychical damage reduction is better choice thought.|||Sometimes my sorc suffers from a staccato of cloud damage when teleporting into a cloud (e.g. when travilling back through an area in which clouds have been produced a few seconds before). I guess that's when happens when the clouds overlap.
The poison cloud comes with an invisible cluod which deals a small amount of physical damage (25-50 or so), just like many spell-like attacks from monsters cause physical damage in addition, but as poison damage is applied once per frame (1/25 second), it will deal huge amount of physical damage. Poison resistance won't help at it, but PDR will.|||Due to a bug the clouds play the same sound as a javelin upon collision, so a quick succession of collisions sounds like a machine gun.
The Tomb Viper's A1 attack has a missile assigned to it (viper_poisjav in Missiles.txt) and this attack applies both physical and poison damage, 100% of which is applied by this javelin on collision. Since the javelin is destroyed on impact, this damage is only applied once.
However, this javelin can release up to 14 clouds in its wake (viper_poisjavcloud in Missiles.txt), each of which applies 100% of the javelin's damage. This means that they apply the A1 attack's physical and poison damage on collision too: although these clouds aren't destroyed on impact and they linger, Last Collide is enabled, which normally prevents a missile from colliding with its last target and thus applying its damage or effects again.
There are two circumstances in which the physical and poison damage of the clouds can be applied multiple times in quick succession. The first is when you move and collide with multiple clouds: since Tomb Vipers spawn in groups of 2-3, a single salvo of 2-3 javelins can generate up to 28-42 clouds and moving through them can thus result in damage being applied up to 28-42 times. The second is when two targets are overlapping or standing close enough together to collide with the same cloud(s): since enabling Last Collide only prevents a missile from colliding with its last target, each cloud collides with the targets alternately and thus applies its damage every other frame (averaging 12.5 times per second).
Obviously players have complained about this, but unfortunately these complaints met with the following post on the Battle.net forums (which is long gone, but quoted at the end of the third post of the Things you SHOULD know about Diablo 2 thread stuck at the top of Battle.net's Diablo II Gameplay Discussion Forum):
Quote:
Working as intended.
Based on what's already been described, that's probably true from a coding perspective: apart from everything else, viper_poisjavcloud is the only missile which uses the SrcMissDam column in Missiles.txt (this is what makes it apply the javelin's damage), suggesting this column may have been inserted for this specific case. Last Collide probably works as intended, since otherwise information would have to be stored of every single target hit by every single missile for which it was enabled.
However, there is one way in which the clouds are almost certainly bugged (or at least not working as intended, unless Blizzard are evil): they're only supposed to last for 2.4 seconds (60 frames). While they do so visibly, they last for at least another 4.8 seconds (120 frames) invisibly.
To avoid multiple collisions and thus multiple applications of damage a player should stand still, away from any other targets and not move for at least five seconds after the clouds have apparently disappeared. Note that Teleporting with a mercenary or pet(s) won't necessarily keep you safe: if a Sorceress teleports into a cloud with a mercenary, the cloud will still collide alternately with both of them... and if she teleports into multiple clouds...
Tomb Viper AI can also be altered to prevent them from firing their javelins in the first place: casting Dim Vision at the edge of the screen is probably the surest means of doing so, although casting pets within their m�l�e range or casting Cloak of Shadows or Mind Blast, Howl, Taunt, Grim Ward, Terror, Confuse or Attract at range are other possibilities.
Another possibility is negating the damage so that it doesn't matter how many collisions there are. Since poison damage is designed to be applied every frame, the damage which is applied by each collision is negligible: at worst, when a cloud's Last Collide is overridden extra frames of poison damage will be applied every other frame, increasing the rate of damage by 50% and resetting the length for which that rate is applied. Furthermore, when Last Collide is overridden each additional cloud should increase the rate of damage by 50%: two clouds will double the rate (+100%), four clouds will triple it (+200%), and so on.
The danger comes from multiple applications of the modest physical damage, which increases by 6.25% with every additional player in Ladder and single-player games in Nightmare and Hell, can be increased by +% Damage and doubled by a critical hit (although these only occur on 5% of collisions). On the flip side, cloud collisions can be blocked and an Assassin's Weapon Block and an Amazon's Avoid and Evade are effective.
No random Champion or Unique Tomb Vipers spawn in the Halls of Vaught, so the only ones you'll find are those that spawn from Evil Urns or in set locations at the end of the halls: if you know how to find Nihlathak, then you never need to encounter them (and it's certainly worth avoiding Champions, or Extra Strong Tomb Vipers that spawn Aura Enchanted and Cursed... and damage of other types can also be added by elemental enchantments). However, Nihlathak himself can be enchanted with Might (level 12 applying +150% Damage in Nightmare, level 15 applying +180% Damage in Hell) or Fanaticism (level 9 applying +93% Damage in Nightmare, level 11 applying +110% Damage in Hell). Below is the physical damage the javelin and clouds will apply under various conditions, rounded up to the nearest point when +% Damage is applied:
Nightmare
Code:
TOMB VIPER PLAYERS
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Normal 23- 31 24- 32 25- 34 27- 36 28- 38 30- 40 31- 42 33- 44
+ 9 Fanaticism 45- 60 47- 62 49- 66 53- 70 55- 74 58- 78 60- 82 64- 85
+12 Might 58- 78 60- 80 63- 85 68- 90 70- 95 75-100 78-105 83-110
Since integer damage reduction is applied before percentage damage reduction (also known as Damage Resist %), if you're cursed with Amplify Damage (DR -100%) this isn't really an issue when no +% Damage is applied if you're equipping DR >43 in an eight-player game (although the occasional critical hit will hurt more unless you're equipping DR >87).
The bright side of +% Damage applying to cloud damage is that -% Damage also does so: casting Weaken (-33%), Decrepify (-50%), Battle Cry (-(24+(1*slvl))%) or Taunt (-(3+(2*slvl))%) will decrease physical damage, although the impact will be much less significant when +% Damage is also being applied.
Hell
Code:
TOMB VIPER PLAYERS
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Normal 42- 56 44- 59 47- 63 49- 66 52- 70 55- 73 57- 77 60- 80
+11 Fanaticism 89-118 93-124 99-133 103-139 110-147 116-154 120-162 126-168
+15 Might 118-157 124-166 132-177 138-185 146-196 154-205 160-216 168-224
Nihlathak can spawn Cursed and Aura Enchanted in Hell, so if you're not careful Tomb Viper clouds can still be dangerous even when copious quantities of -% Damage, DR and even DR % are applied.
Note that Tomb Vipers spawn in the Halls of Vaught 13/27 or ~48% of the time, so saving and exiting to respawn when running Nihlathak for Keys of Destruction is going to be tedious.|||im scared of poison ... (playing HC nowadays)|||In Hell, Tomb Viper poison javelins and clouds apply 42-56 physical and < 90 (230*100/256) total poison damage over 4 seconds, so each collision applies 42-56 physical and < 1 (230/256) additional poison damage: even if you have Poison Resist -100%, it isn't the poison damage you should worry about.
When Last Collide is overridden by standing next to or on top of another target, each cloud applies collision damage 12.5 times per second on average, resulting in 525-700 total physical damage and < 12 (12.5*230/256) additional poison damage per second (on top of < 23 (25*230/256) poison damage per second normally applied).
If you decide to charge a single Tomb Viper after it has fired its javelin at you, the javelin and up to 14 clouds would apply up to 630-840 total physical damage and < 14 (15*230/256) additional poison damage. Since Tomb Vipers spawn in groups of 2-3, that damage may be doubled or even tripled.
In an eight-player Ladder or single player game, damage increases to 60-80 physical and < 184 (330*142/256) total poison damage over 5.68 (142/25) seconds, so each collision applies 60-80 physical and < 2 (330/256) additional poison damage.
No comments:
Post a Comment