Thorns + spirit of barb

[:1]I'm still trying to find unusual build. I wonder if druid "spirit of barb" use thorns aura or it is treated as another skill.

If yes, then I think that merc with Edge and Bramble + Spirit of Barb can be a source of additional damage. It they are trated as the same aura then only merc thorns would be active.|||I would advise against the build alltogether. The damage in hell is too pitiful. I dunno about your question though. The build has been up for debates many a times, but I really dont remember if it stacks - .. though it wouldnt matter very much.|||I remember threads about IM and thorns. I do not expect that returned damage can change a lot.

Anyway since 1.13 respec character is possible I think it can be worth to try. I'm bored with all builds where only difference is druid with HotO or HoW.

I can easy respec my build but Ohm is not Shael. I want to ask before I make Bramble.|||Thorns and Spirit of Barbs (and Iron Maiden) are separate and thus their percentages add together. However, while Spirit of Barbs may display 30+(20*slvl)% damage returned, it actually only applies 40+(10*slvl)% damage returned... so level 20 may display 430% but it actually applies just 240%, while level 40 may display 830% but it actually applies just 440%.|||Quote:








I would advise against the build alltogether. The damage in hell is too pitiful. I dunno about your question though. The build has been up for debates many a times, but I really dont remember if it stacks - .. though it wouldnt matter very much.




I agree with not making this build. Example:

Minotaur in hell - ~14K hp, 66% resist physical, average melee damage 95. Even with 1000% damage return, the minotaur takes only 950*.33 = 314 damage each time he hits you. So, each one would need to hit you 45 times before it dies, and likely many more due to monster regen. Meanwhile, you took 4300 hp of damage.

If he is hitting a minion, they have physical resist of their own, and the damage is even less, requires even more hits and likely doesn't exceed monster regen.

Also, many monsters are ranged or spell casters, so they take zero damage from thorns type damage (unless you stand right on top of them, like archers).|||Death Lords of the Throne of Destruction in Single Player or Ladder Hell have Damage Resist 66%, 14,836-18,546 (16,691 average) life and apply 76-115 (95.5 average) damage; level 30-36 (33 average) Thorns returns 1,410-1,650% (1,530% average) damage.

Spirit Wolves, Dire Wolves, Grizzly, Necroskeletons, Necromages, Golems excluding Clay (or Iron when summoned from a DR or DR % item), Decoy and Valkyrie all have DR 0%.

Assuming a Death Lord attacks one of these, on average (16,691 life, 95.5 damage, 1,530% damage returned) ~497 damage is returned; if damage regeneration is stopped by poison, Prevent Monster Heal or Open Wounds, it would take 34 hits to kill itself. Even with Blood Lord Frenzy being used 80% of the time, that would take a while in isolation.

Cast Amplify Damage (DR -100%) and on average ~1,958 damage is returned, resulting in 9 hits being required to kill itself.

When AD is also cast on a DR 0% target (~1/4 random Unique monsters spawn Cursed in Hell, Hell Witches and Oblivion Knights can also cast it, a Paladin or Assassin can convert a cursed monster) and on average ~3,916 damage is returned, resulting in 5 hits being required to kill itself.

Bearing in mind that Death Lords are some of the toughest monsters in the game in terms of DR % and life, returned damage can make a contribution when AD is cast. However, as has been pointed out it certainly cannot kill everything (and damage won't be returned to archers, even when firing at point-blank range), so there have to be alternative sources of damage (like Necroskeletons, wolves or Grizzly).|||Quote:








However, as has been pointed out it certainly cannot kill everything (and damage won't be returned to archers, even when firing at point-blank range), so there have to be alternative sources of damage (like Necroskeletons, wolves or Grizzly).




Okay, so let me be clear on this:

For Attacker Takes Damage of X a caster or ranged attacker does take damage of X, but only when your character is standing within Range=1 of them, i.e., right next to them?

But, in the same situation, Casters and Ranged Attackers take no damage from Thorns or IM? Do I have that right?

And, Onderduiker, thanks for the information on Spirit of Barbs. Another Blizzard error nerfing a skill -(although not a very good one in this case.) So add Spirit of Barbs to Sanctuary, Arctic Blast, Inferno, Wave of Inferno and all those Amazon Bow Skills that don't actually get the +X to attack rating that is stated. Geez.|||Neither Attacker Takes Damage nor returned damage will apply to a ranger or caster unless they switch to a melee attack at close range. So while Fallen Shamans have a melee attack which they can use at close range, Demon Imps do not (so neither ATD nor returned damage will ever apply to them, even at point-blank range).

Incidentally, the problem is that the Spirit of Barbs tool-tip uses values from the Spirit of Barbs skill, whereas actual returned damage is based on values from the Barbs Aura skill used by the spirit. Oak Sage and Heart of Wolverine are similar, but in those cases the values for both the skill summoning the spirit and the aura used by the spirit match, so the displayed and actual bonuses match as well.

It would be incredibly easy to fix and, better yet, improve: it's ridiculous that 20 points in a level 30 skill actually returns less damage than a single point in a level 6 skill (240% vs 250%).